HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-9-24 Council Meeting280 CITY COUNCIL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 24, 1998
CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Mayor Larkin called the meeting to order at 7:03 P.M. Members present were: Mayor Larkin
and City Councilors: Ken Guenthner, Dixie Lindsley, Ernie Mayers, and Ken Kluck. Also
present: City Clerk Stacy Doboszenski, City Engineer Vince Vander Top, Police Chief Paul
Schutte, City Planner Roger Bromander, and Public Works Lead Persons Robert Krei and Patrick
Meister.
There were approximately 20 people in attendance at the meeting.
OPEN FORUM
This was not done due to the public hearing. Mayor Larkin polled the audience for anyone who
wanted to address the Council.
SET AGENDA
The agenda changed as follows:
• Mr. Wegner and Mr. Sykes from the University of MN are present with Paul Jacobs to give
the HRUA Report
PUBLIC HEARING ON DOWNTOWN STORM WATER CONVEYANCE_SYSTEM
IMPROVEMENTS
Mayor Larkin opened the public hearing at 7:04 p.m.
Vince stated that before the public hearing be opened, requested to give a brief update. Vince
explained the reason for the second public hearing and the amendment to the feasibility report.
Councilor Mayers arrived at 7:06 p.m.
Vince explained the overall improvement to the storm water system. He then showed the area
that was included in the feasibility study and the costs associated with it. Vince then gave a
recap of the general recommendations, project financing, and showed a preliminary assessment
roll with an overhead indicating the number of units of assessment per property.
At this time, public comment was taken.
Bill Halverstadt stated he has heard in the past the need for septic in the downtown area, if there
is a need for having wastewater, he is proposing, as a board member of HRUA, to put a package
plant in downtown area for the processing of wastewater. That water then instead of having a big
pipe going down to Pig's Eye and leaving Corcoran, could be put in the same pipe as after being
processed, merge with the storm water, and retain it here for use in the NURP ponds including
the reduction of fire expense with the water being contained here. This is something that the
HRUA has to get into a little more deeply. It is my understanding that this probably wouldn't be
implemented until next year anyhow, as far as being on the sites. Feels this may be an overall
solution that needs to be explored. Don't hurry and put this thing together. Have people here
from the University and extension agents, Paul who is the director of the HRUA, and an
engineer, and we have had people on staff, to support them. They have had experience with
these package plants and have been very, very successful. I would like to give that to the
Council to add to the overall decision as an alternative.
Councilor Lindsley asked when that would be ready.
Bill Halverstadt stated in a matter of very few months.
Councilor Lindsley stated that she has been ready for two years.
Bill Halverstadt stated he is taking bull by the horns, as a procedure and methodology to process 8
the wastewater. Probably going faster than the staff would have agreed to, but they have agreed
that Bill can make that suggestion. We have had, will have such good meetings, with an
engineer that has very great experience with these package plants.
Dixie asked to hear from people who have businesses downtown, and their feelings.
John Spaeth stated he doesn't know what this has to do with the project that needs to be done,
something the City promised to do when the development was put in. At the last public hearing,
nobody opposed it, maybe one, most everyone agreed that it was something that has to be done.
Something that can be done in the winter time when the ground is froze. Other than the NURP
ponds, get it up and running by Spring. Found an old paper, they started this in February.
Councilor Lindsley asked if City were to do this project and we incorporated their idea, how
much money would then be wasted, because we moved too fast.
Bill Halverstadt stated there would be some, without question. What we would end up with is a
system without ditches and cattails. This would clean up the downtown area. A unified system
that covers both of these main objectives. Looks to be something they wish to consider.
Councilor Lindsley asked an environmentalist present. She asked what risks we would be
running into downtown by not doing something in the very near future, as far as health.
John Kingstead asked what is driving the project now. Is there something that is posing a threat
to safety and welfare?
John Spaeth stated that these guys are coming from out of town, don't have anything to do with
Corcoran. Feels they are doing an injustice to the City. Are they going to go out for bids for a
package plant? This is just upkeep, nobody is complaining about the assessment. Maybe in five
years when their project is cut and dried, then maybe the ditch needs to be cleaned again.
Councilor Lindsley stated they are specialists, they do go to various cities and have a look at
what is needed, have no problem with that. If we spend money now in this project, what are we
throwing away, if in six months from now they could turn around and give us a whole system.
Vince stated that he doesn't know how accurately anyone can answer that question.
I would strongly encourage what Bill is talking about, it is something that we have been asking
for, waiting for, struggling with for last two years. In terms of the need for this project, this
project was started, because of the issues with the drainage ditch. Is there a flood concern, what
is driving this project? Doesn't know that there is danger by not doing this project this winter or
this spring. That's not to say there aren't merits to the project, and that it isn't needed. But, if
there is information to be presented, bring it forward as quickly as you can, we would like to see
it.
C=g Ebert I have a real issue with this. Originally Bonestroo suggested a pipe with catch basins
and man holes, I believe the same organization came forward and said open ditch is a better
solution, I believe I am correct in saying that. Now the open ditch proposal is a half inch away
from being accepted. Everyone was assured at the last meeting that all we were going to study
from Vince's stand point was the additional costs, it was pretty much an unanimous thing. All of
a sudden the pipe originally talked about is a bad idea, now all of a sudden we are in an open
ditch and it is a bad idea. This organization has strangulated this City, and the growth of this
City, too many times, take an issue and say lets move on. In fairness to the people who were
282 here the last time, and not tonight, they thought this thing was going forward, and so did I. I
didn't think this was an option worth considering at this point. Thought it was unanimous.
John Kingstead, asked to be here to respond to questions where the project is at as far as the
water quality cooperative. Did file a permit application, to cover the package plant that Mr.
Halverstadt is talking about. That permit application is being processed by the PCA. It has been
a long time. It's taking a while for PCA to understand, since this is a new permit for them. Feels
the permit will be granted very soon, before next spring. We think that once we get this permit,
we can proceed with the package plant we have been talking about. As far as the storm water
plan is concerned, don't have to wait for a permit for that. This is a new issue since we talked to
Corcoran about being a partner in our process to develop a water quality cooperative project.
This project has only emerged in last six months or so. Feels legit area to consider project that is
within our scope on a less costly basis, combining some of the concepts of discharging system
trying to get license for. As far as this project is concerned, would like an opportunity to present
a plan before you decide on a city project.
Bill Halverstadt stated there are two distinct differences 1. When there was action by a lot of
people in favor keeping Corcoran rural against the big pipe and solving the downtown problem.
There the water would leave Corcoran and go to Pig's Eye, that it would also possibly need
massive development to support it. This would just handle what the downtown area is now. As
John Kingstead, the Attorney for this organization, and others operating out of the University
said the big pipe would not have handled the storm water in the same way. You don't want to put
the storm water in the big pipe going down to Pigs Eye.
Councilor Lindsley said lets get current. The big pipe is gone, that's not an option. Now we are
back to the City's concept or the package plant concept. When do we see it happen.
Kingstead stated if the PCA would grant the permit.
Councilor Lindsley stated lets say the permit is granted next week.
Kingstead stated that it would take about the same time as getting a septic system installed.
Paul Jacobs stated a representative from Rockford Township Board is here tonight. Has a
handout, an approved Resolution from the Township Board, to have HRUA assist them on storm
water matters. What it is trying to say is the storm water and the wastewater are both bunches to
the process, and the two go together. Trying to let you know this is corning your way.
Rockford Township Board Member (no name given): We had a unanimous vote on Tuesday
night to get these people to help us. Having a problem with water coming from land that has
been annexed by the City of Rockford onto township property. We have been getting absolutely
nowhere at helping our people. Gave Paul a call several months ago, he came down to look it
over. Last Tuesday, voted unanimously to get them. Already this afternoon, have had meetings
to very seriously look at this problem. Stated the press has labeled them as anti -annexation and
anti -development, that has not been true. Right now have had three different pieces of land that
has been annexed that has developments on them that we are having a water problem with.
People from the City wouldn't help them. Getting nowhere until these people helped us.
Todd Russ, Russnick Contractors. I've been at all the meetings regarding this. I want to step
back, what we were talking about previously, if they utilize the ditch, whatever they do, don't
you still have to come in and clean it, track it correctly? Then lets get it clean, they would have
to do that anyway to lay their pipe in there. They keep talking about a system that nobody has
seen, we have not seen how it will be piped, the cost, we don't know nothing about it. All we 283
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wanted to do, and all it started out to be is, that we just want to clean the ditch out. Whatever V
they proposed to the Council, we are open to them, will listen, and have been waiting for them.
We didn't want to go into a major deal, I understand Council doesn't want to spend money where
they don't have to, just clean the ditch. Still would like to know what system is, what cost is, and
how are they proposing to do it. There needs to be something done.
John Spaeth asked where does the package plant go.
Councilor Lindsley stated it is a good question.
Councilor Guenthner stated Dixie hit the nail on the head. This project isn't exclusive of
anything down the road. Do we risk those assessment dollars? Do we require those property
owners to pay an assessment now and have them pay a capital contribution to the cooperative to
get hooked up to get the more elaborate system, The TIF dollars is sort of the same debate, a
little more vague, hard to say at this point how TIF dollars might end up with any type of
participation with the co-op. These are issues of how the funding and financing comes about in
the long run. I'm a little bit concerned about those assessment dollars. We can't clean the ditch
as a maintenance project out of the general fund, we don't have the money. The only way to get
the ditch cleaned is to create a project that has benefit to property so we can assess the properties
and use TIF funds. If we had the dollars to do it, we would just clean the ditches and that would
be the solution.
Councilor Mayers, feels we could wait for HRUA to come with their plan.
On a motion by Mayers, seconded by Kluck, to close the public hearing at 7:39 p.m.
Motion carried unanimously.
There was a discussion on timing of the project and when it would be done,
Vince recommended to Council to have the HRUA come forward, present what the solution
would be in their eyes.
Councilor Lindsley stated that she wants a deadline.
Councilor Guenthner asked if they can come forward with something contingent upon the
issuance of the permit.
John Kingstead stated that in February, HRUA was told that it would take 9 months for the
permit. He further spoke on the requests the PCA has asked of the HRUA.
Councilor Guenthner stated if HRUA would run the risk of setting the standard, and the PCA
said no, now they have to come back out with new standard.
Ebert commented on the Wastewater Commissions ordinance and how he feels the HRUA plan
goes against the ordinance. He then recommended having the HRUA system discharge into the
pond on City property. He further commented stating he thought the HRUA is voluntary, not
something you have to join.
Paul Jacobs stated that the 7080 rules do not apply to what we are doing, stating the reason is the
technology is totally unrelated. It is misleading to confuse the two.
2 84 Councilor Lindsley stated it would cost $15,000 to just clean the ditch and dredge out the
bottom.
It was reminded that $15,000 does nothing on ponds and no culvert repair.
The best way is to get a private contractor to clean them.
Ebert asked how the City would get around the watershed if the ditches are just cleaned.
Vince stated that Elm Creek has indicated that there might be some natural wetlands in that ditch
area.
Councilor Lindsley asked if the Council can have a plan from the HRUA by Christmas.
Bill Halverstadt said yes, with his staff members in agreement.
Councilor Kluck asked what the HRUA brought to PCA to apply for the permit.
Doug Russ stated what if the permit is denied?
Paul Jacobs responded that in Rockford Township, they did not need the PCA permit to deal with
storm water issues. He further spoke on various issues where permits were not granted, and the
work was being done.
Councilor Kluck questioned whether or not Arnie Kral will be able to get an occupancy permit if
he does not have a NURP pond.
Vince stated that he would have to construct something on site for water quality and quantity.
There was continued discussion on just doing a basic ditch cleaning project.
On a motion by Lindsley, seconded by Mayers to have a plan for work to be done in 1999 from
the HRUA brought to the Council at the second meeting in December.
There was further discussion on getting business owners to pay for the ditch cleaning.
Arnie Kral stated lets go ahead and get the ditch cleaned, if the Cooperative doesn't happen, then
go ahead and get the work done.
Vince stated that he will proceed with putting a package together with the watershed and with
Permagreen.
Councilor Guenthner asked how long it would take to hear from the watershed.
Vince stated within a month will have a decision from the watershed.
Ebert asked if this could come before the Wastewater Commission and then before the Council.
Lindsley amended the motion to include that the City go ahead with the plans and specs to
present to the watershed. Mayers seconded.
Motion carried with Lindsley, Mayers, Guenthner, and Larkin voting aye; Kluck opposed, stating
he feels the ditch cleaning should happen now.
)YASTEWATER REPORT AND HRUA REPORT BY PA L JACOBS
Roger spoke on behalf of the Wastewater Commission detailing the recommendations forwarded
to Council; a variance for AK Auto, an experimental septic system for Custom Filtration, and the
Wastewater Ordinance to be forwarded to the PCA for their review and approval.
Paul Jacobs then gave his report of the HRUA. He handed a packet out to the Council. Q
Explained that the USDA has recognized them as a cooperative, and that they are eligible for VV
funding. He informed the Council that the HRUA will be at the October 5, 1998 Wastewater
Commission meeting for discussion with the public and the Commission. He also explained that
they have received a charitable donation from the Darkenwald Family. He informed the Council
that he has spoken with the Elm Creek Watershed, and if they create certain types of wildlife,
according to Elm Creek Watershed, there may be ways around having to mitigate, in the case of
the downtown storm water ditch. Mr. Jacobs introduced Robert Sykes and Tom Wegner from
the University of Minnesota.
Mr. Sykes spoke on a project taking place in Corcoran. Students from the University of
Minnesota are using a parcel of land to learn how to develop land in a more ecologically
sensitive manner other than conventional development. They will also incorporate the ability to
use the alternative wastewater systems. Further stated that they are doing it more as a public
education program. Tom Wegner was then introduced. Mr. Wegner teaches the students, and
stated he hopes to hold an open house in December. Mr. Wegner spoke on what the students
would be doing and explained different cities where they have been and what has resulted. He
then thanked Corcoran for allowing them to come into Corcoran at Horseshoe Trail and Rolling
Hills Road.
Council discussed approving the Wastewater Commission recommendations.
Ken Guenthner asked about the Wastewater Ordinance and the reason for a time limit on failing
septic systems that are not an eminent health hazard, and why the 10 year time limit.
Members of the Wastewater Commission stated that Mr. Gustafson recommended using that
time limit as a sunset clause.
There was a brief discussion on the differences between failing systems that need to be replaced
in 10 months, and systems that need replacement or upgrading in 10 years.
On a motion by Mayers, seconded by Lindsley, to accept the wastewater commissions
recommendations.
Motion carried unanimously.
Tony Ruppert informed the Council that the PCA is considering some changes to the 7080 rules.
1999 BUDGET
Review Budget by Line Item
Clerk Doboszenski informed the Council that the budget has been gone through line item by line
item and there is an explanation in memo form of how each number is arrived at.
Vince explained that he is eluding to redeveloping the CIP.
Pat Meister stated that Roger and him worked on the equipment end of the CIP and it was found
that if we budgeted $100,000 for year 2000, and $5000 more each year after that, and that by the
year 2005, we would be in the hole.
Dixie explained that she cut the budget by $26,000 and that she first looked at the consultants.
The first consultants are the Council and suggested cutting the wages of the council. She then
listed the following areas and the dollar amounts she would like each department to cut from
their budget:
• Council reduced by $7500
• Legal reduced by $3000
• Building Inspector reduce by $3500 and would like to renegotiate a service contract
• Engineering $3000
• Parks $2000
• Public Works $4000
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v Vince stated that the engineering could be held at the 1998 amount.
Council questioned the increase in the area of wages and equipment. Clerk Doboszenski stated
that she was informed that parks needs a new mower.
Clerk Doboszenski spoke on the areas of the public works budget that can be reduced.
Councilor Guenthner stated he is not here for the money. What the Council is doing be reducing
the budget is tying to building a reserve. If we cut the council wages and we've arrived at a
balanced budget.
Councilor Kluck stated the roads are a main issue of the City of Corcoran.
Councilor Lindsley informed the Council that the change in Council salary, a change in the
ordinance, would have to be made in the second meeting in October, before the election.
On a motion by Guenthner, seconded by Lindsley, to advertise for a public hearing to eliminate
wages for city council (social security & medicare) and to be placed on meeting for approval at
the second meeting in October.
Councilor Kluck stated that when funds run out, then just eliminate services; road department
and police.
Mayor Larkin called for a vote.
Motion carried with Guenthner, Lindsley, Larkin, and Mayers voting aye; Kluck opposed.
Engineer Update on Billing
Vince's recommendation is to keep engineering budget at $12,000; the same as 1998.
(CONT.I MINNESOTA TEAMSTERS PUBLIC AND LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEES,
UNION, LOCAL NO. 320 CONTRACT PROPOSAL
Dixie asked the Clerk to explain the areas of the budget that have been increased because of the
contract. Clerk Doboszenski stated that the changes occurred due to longevity, long term
disability and life insurance, and a few thousand in wages.
On a motion by Lindsley, seconded by Kluck, to request a closed session next Thursday night,
October 1st, in the conference room, to discuss this matter as we did the first time around.
Motion carried unanimously.
CONSENT AGENDA
Councilor Kluck questioned the grant for the snowmobiles. Chief Schutte explained it is used
for overtime wages.
On a motion by Kluck, seconded by Mayers, to approve the following consent agenda items:
• Approval of List of Claims #707 - 739
• Approval of the September 10, 1998 City Council Minutes
• Approval of Resolution No. 1998 - 48, A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
CORCORAN POLICE DEPARTMENT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE SNOWMOBILE
SAFETY ENFORCEMENT GRANT AGREEMENT AND EXECUTION OF THE
AGREEMENT
Motion carried unanimously.
Ditch 28
Mayor Larkin questioned if anything has been done with the ditch at the intersection of Foxline
and Treeline Drive. Stated he received a phone call from Charlie Russell, and Mr. Russell told
him that the Public Works does not intend to dig the ditch out. Pat Meister stated that they are
still planning to dig the ditch out, they just haven't had time to do it.
Hubic Theis - Animals At Large Situation
Councilor Lindsley stated that he has all the fence he needs to fence himself in. All that is
needed is 6 more heavy duty posts, which Greg Ebert might donate.
Robert Krei stated that Mr. Theis informed the road department that he will have the fence up by
October 1 st.
This led to a lengthy discussion on the following:
• Who will help put up the fence?
• Councilor Guenthner feels it is worth a call to Hennepin County
• Ebert stated that he will donate 6 posts tomorrow to the City of Corcoran for Hubie Theis
• Chief Schutte stated that the city needs to at least make an attempt to control these animals
• Confiscating the animals
• Getting the Humane Society involved again
• Chief Schutte asked for council support for when he comes to the meeting
• The City having the responsibility to try to solve the problem
• Is the City accepting responsibility is anything gets out
Council consensus was to try to find volunteers from various civic organizations to help put up
the fence.
rT
Ms. Johnston addressed the Council and encouraged them to continue to deal in good faith, as
Mr. Guenthner and Ms. Lindsley have been doing. She stated that she did not want to have to
pursue legal remedies.
ADJOURN
Mayor Larkin adjourned the meeting at 9:25 p.m.
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